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[personal profile] cmdr_zoom
(non-gamers can just skip this post.)

One of the themes of Changeling is fantasy overlaid on, or peeking into, reality. Many players see this as an altogether good thing (not least because the alternative is presented as a death of the spirit). What they fail to consider is that not all fantasy is pleasant and entertaining, and that as gamers, they choose when and how to experience it - an option not available to schizophrenics or drug users with flashbacks. Scary voices in your head and chimerical spiders crawling on you should be at least as common as translucent Seussian parades down Mulberry Street. In fact, a good Changeling game (IMO) should have moments of doubt in which even the most self-assured Troll or Sidhe might wonder if they are merely normal people having psychotic hallucinations.

Old Vampire players may recognize this as a variation on the Malkavian Problem. Real insanity isn't silly or fun. It's disturbing, frightening, and sometimes dangerous. Naturally, we choose what aspects of this we wish to explore in our fantasy; but again, this is not always possible for our characters, and to ignore that is to deprive them of depth and struggle. Changelings, balanced as they are between the worlds, must dance the razor's edge and not succumb wholly to either, taking the bad with the good.

Am I talking out of my ass? Let me know!

(no subject)

Date: 2003-12-31 05:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyd.livejournal.com
The best Malkavians are unpleasantly real. Jerry's Thomas the scitzophrenic was realistic enough that he was taken for a real street person on occasion. I have always believed that few Malkavians survive the first day let alone the first week. Some would be so disorganized they wouldn't come in from the sun. Others would be "put down" as a danger to the community. (Too dangerous, annoying, or apt to break Masquerade). It would only be the most functional who would survive a very steep learning curve. My Malkavians are never "wacky," although they are frequently disturbingly charasmatic. As was Hitler. As was Manson. As was Jim Jones. I make them internally psychologically consistant, although they often have beliefs that do not conform to reality. Remember, a very charasmatic imortal with super powers and paranoid delusions can get a lot of people killed. Definately not funny.

(no subject)

Date: 2003-12-31 05:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karjack.livejournal.com
You've actually encapsulated my vision of Changeling, and why I've stopped playing it online, because it's just not the same game. It can be the most frightening horror game out there if you can get people over Peter Pan syndrome and realize that a living fantasy is not always happy fluffy land.

As for Malkavians -- well, you've seen how I play them. Draw your own conclusions.

It's about identity (and I hate Dr. Seuss)

Date: 2003-12-31 05:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lanthinel.livejournal.com
The CtD setting tends to promote way too much of the Seussian weirdness as what "glamour" and "fantasy" is in the hearts of Changelings and mortals alike. Changelings are "raised" thinking that the real world is so utterly broken that there's nothing in that world worth appreciating and embracing, while emphasizing the primary color wunderland that passes for imagination and idealism in popular entertainment.

I think, IMEO, that Changeling is about finding one's own place in the world of dreams and myths, and that changelings are supposed to learn how to be who they are in the "real" world. I had a character who worried that changelings (himself included) were nothing more than wisps of human whimsy given form and nothing more -- no true identity seperate from the role adopted in the world of glamour and "make-believe." It's too easy for changelings to get lost in the role of the moment as whatever kith of whatever Court of whatever legacies of whatever seeming of whatever initial motif chosen at character creation. CtD should be about learning to be one's self, and that that self is more wondrous and glamourous than we might be tempted to believe when having to go to work at McJob. I try to place emphasis on the *self* in that sentence, because too often the system, setting, and players have a tendency to get lost in the pop culture "glamour" of modern fantasy, children's literature, and so forth.

CtD has always had this problem (the primary color wunderland) I think partly because they had so many kiths they had to appeal to and they had to make the Dreaming garish enough that the average reader would have some minimal clue about what they were going on about. Have you ever seen the book that actually talks about the Dreaming and the realms within? The way it's presented, no reasonable changeling should ever want to go there: it will drive you mad and make you the stupidest extreme of what your kith "is," and pretty much destroy any motley that wanders into it. But this is, presumably, the place changelings originate from -- and it utterly destroys any personality or distinctiveness your character had.

At the same time, I think CtD is best done if you encourage players to examine what their mythic thread actually means and how they actually relate to it. Yes, you are This (sidhe/troll/pooka/whatever), but what else are you? What is *your* story? Are you only a mythic stereotype, or are you something more? Without any of this, you might as well be playing Shadowrun 2003 (or D20 Modern Fantasy) and just go explore dungeons and fight monsters.

CtD also has a great deal in the background for who characters were in their lives before their present incarnation. I think this also relates to understanding who you were, who you are now, and who you can be.

Just my verbose thoughts on the matter, spurred by my dislike of Dr. Seuss. :)

Re: It's about identity (and I hate Dr. Seuss)

Date: 2003-12-31 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lanthinel.livejournal.com
I had a character who worried that changelings (himself included) were nothing more than wisps of human whimsy given form and nothing more -- no true identity seperate from the role adopted in the world of glamour and "make-believe."

Of course, my character resolved this dilemma by realizing that if he was questioning and worrying about this, that probably demonstrated that he wasn't merely just someone else's fever dream.

Re: It's about identity (and I hate Dr. Seuss)

Date: 2004-01-01 02:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cmdr-zoom.livejournal.com
It all comes back to "cogito ergo sum," doesn't it? :)

I like Seuss, just not in my gaming. Or badly interpreted for the big screen.

Some very good thoughts. Thanks for commenting. I was a little worried I might be off-target, since my firsthand experience with CtD is extremely limited (mostly a Mage player).

Re: It's about identity (and I hate Dr. Seuss)

Date: 2004-01-01 12:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyd.livejournal.com
The Umbra and the bits dealing with Faerie in particicular is a dark and dangerous place when I'm GMing. It's the subconscious' map of reality. If that doesn't scare you, knowing me, you are lacking a pulse.

Re: It's about identity (and I hate Dr. Seuss)

Date: 2004-01-01 01:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lanthinel.livejournal.com
I've had to deal with most of the WoD stuff at some point, although I always sided towards CtD and MtA over the others (blech, leeches). I appreciate where those two are coming from more than the others (I can understand the angst of VtM and WtO, I just don't particularly care, and WtA just always seems to be puppy hack and slash, although one supposes one might find an environmental consciousness and a shamanic thing there -- if that's your kink).

CtD has always been the red-headed Irish stepchild of the WoD because it was never quite as monolithically dark or oppressive (at a first glance) as the other WoD games. Also, the various kith are pretty damn varied as far as trying to figure out what to do with a motley's redcap or pooka or whatever, and they go out of their way to make, I think, the kith even more stereotyped than most other factions in other games. I think it's because each kith might as well be its own "species" of WoD critter (Troll: The Pretending to be a Klingon Samurai Norse Warrior or Sluagh: The Whispering Goth Angst), just using the same mechanics as the others (basically). The other factions in other games are pretty much distinguished along social and cultural lines (the differences in blood ancestry pale compared to the social and philosophical outlooks of Ventrue and Torreador), and people have an easier time wrapping their heads around that. I think most people look at changeling kiths and go "the hell is this?" and almost all they have to work with is what's in the basic book or the kithbook for that kith. *shrug*

That and CtD attracted it's own brand of weirdo compared to the other games.

Re: It's about identity (and I hate Dr. Seuss)

Date: 2004-01-01 03:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyd.livejournal.com
My Garou do a lot of spirit journays etc.. We really get in to the Garou culture aspect, and I do a wicked dangerous Umbra. Of course, my version of the Umbra is not a freindly place and my faeries are right out of folklore.

Re: It's about identity (and I hate Dr. Seuss)

Date: 2004-01-02 05:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inariko.livejournal.com
blech, leeches

Well, some of us do find the redemptive and moral issues of V:tM rather appealing. (Like the 2nd Ed Vampire book says, "You're supposed to be playing a tragic hero, dumbass.") The same with D:tF, a very similar game which suffers from horrible art but encourages heroic / sympathetic characters even more.

Granted, some sensuality in the mix also helps, something which I often find lacking in Changeling, which is often described as either modern D&D-esque silliness or a very austere intellectual exercise. I like your take on it well enough, particularly trying to find a balance (a common WW theme) but it still comes across as being a little too dry for my tastes. The closest analogue I have to it is Wraith, the little game that could, and its themes of loss, questioning and longing...

IMO, Changeling suffers primarily from a lack of focus caused by the need to encompass a much broader concept than "vampire", "werewolf" or "ghost". There's a lot of territory to cover among the Fae, and trying to convey the themes of Changeling to an audience which has received relatively little exposure to the concept is no easy feat. Demon, as a weird Vampire-Changeling hydbrid, attempts much the same thing, often with more success given the familiarity of the material.

As it is, I still find more meaning in WoD and Exalted than in virtualy any other game, monolithic darkness and oppression included. It at least communicates at a level above "kill, level up, kill".

(no subject)

Date: 2003-12-31 06:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kalshann.livejournal.com
your not talking out of your ass, I've only played a single changeling character but from my understanding of how WW *should* be played I have to agree with you. Characters should have flaws, sore spots and other esoteric errata that give them energy and life- However I've never seen a changeling that was torn between terror and madness that was ever played- though I must say that all the games I've played or run have effectivly been "mix" games so that does draw away from the 'horror' of banality and possible insanity for a character when there is a mage and vampire in the room. [shrug]

I appreciate that you cap'ed the Malk Problem, I've never heard or seen one played that wasn't some sort of reject from a Loony Toons cartoon- and that destroys any shreads of 'darkness' the might otherwise have had.

I agree, overall.

Date: 2004-01-01 08:58 am (UTC)
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From: [personal profile] seawasp
I have myself not *Played* Changeling, but I have read some of the material, and as a gamer of very long standing (since '77), an author, and general all-around fantasy geek, I think you described very well what the universe of something like Changeling is like.

By coincidence, what actually brought Changeling to my attention was one of the most disturbing, but brilliant, pieces of RPG world design and adaptation I've ever seen. It *ENCAPSULATES* what you discuss in your journal entry, in fact, by taking something which the common publich sees as rather fluffy-fuzzy harmless fantasy and (A) adapting the REAL material, which was not nearly as bright-light-perky as the average public perception of it, and (B) working out a sequence of events showing what horrors could be visited upon that world.

I speak, of course, of OZ: A World of Darkness. http://people.smu.edu/bsbrown/ozframe.html introduces this brilliant, creepy, and amazing bit of work. I was a complete Oz junkie as a kid (I have all of Baum's original Oz books and a couple of the others), and this is... stunning.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-02 01:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kireishojo.livejournal.com
i've played changeling and i can see what you are talking about. i also understand what you say about makie's cause my baka boi likes playing them and he has had some experience with some of the more sane insanitys if i may use an oxymoron. i dont think you are talking out of your ass you just were able to put it more succinctly then most people would be able. but then again most people when they think fairy tails nowadyas think disney style not the brothers Grimm.

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